So far the only confirmed solid contribution was from the town of Clarksville for $100,000. The rest of the money needed is still in the talking stages with municipalities like Jeffersonville who is being asked to give up $400,000 as their share of the contributions. Clark Co, government has bantered around giving $200,000... IF ....other communities also contribute.
The BatBlog has several problems with this whole scenario. First of all this is supposed to be a "Regional" Airport and Authority. Why is it only local municipalities (within 10 miles) being asked to pony up ALL the money??? if this is truly for the REGIONS benefit ???? Secondly why such a big amount from Jeffersonville what about New Albany ??? aren't they in this region ???
Finally why are local taxpayers on the hook for this ??? when you have River Ridge and the multiple companies residing there with the most to gain from the expansion. It seems to the BatBlog, River Ridge is the logical place to go begging and they should be the first asked and expected to contribute.
Jeffersonville has more pressing needs like a improved traffic infrastructure for one that needs to be
Tom Galligan the president of the air board was never been a good steward of tax dollars. While mayor of Jeff, remember how he tried to cram his "Canal Project" down the taxpayers throats wasting money on engineering plans. He has the finesse of a sledge hammer and not the type you would want to try and sweet talk into municipal wallets
The BatBlog's advise to any local municipality where Galligan shows up at the door pandering for "Mo Money" is not answer the door or slam it in his face and say "The Bank is closed"
If the final leg of improvements aren't completed, then moving Bean Road was a bust. The Feds will want that money back. Hopefully TG will be given an extension and as HT says all regional governments will chip in.
ReplyDeleteI believe you are wrong on this one HT. Get past your antipathy to Galligan and look at the larger picture. These are matching funds for a much larger project. That money will be spent here in the County. But the more important issue is the long term benefit to the accelerated growth we are seeing in the County. That benefits the county and these municipalities. Too bad Sellersburg wimped out. Anyway....this is a good investment.
ReplyDeleteIt's obscene for the county to consider ponying up even one dollar of hard-earned taxpayer money to subsidize the cost of executives' ease of travel, especially when the county is already broke.
ReplyDelete?
DeleteThe county will always be broke until we increase the Tax base. We need to make this small investment that will provide an outstanding return to our tax base. Business will not fund this, they don't collect the tax revenues.
DeleteActually G. my slant on this issue has nothing to do with Galligan, though he was a poor choice for his position. The "accelerated growth" has occurred and will continue without airport expansion. We are already seeing that this growth is exceeding our ability to handle it. Our present needs are improved traffic infrastructure to handle this influx of businesses and people.
ReplyDeleteMaybe down the road the airport will become a priority but right now the are more pressing needs for the people who provide the tax dollars, and they deserve what benefits them more and it is not a longer runway on a secondary airport.
Why isn't River Ridge providing or at least helping with this funding ??? are they even being asked ??? Seems like Jeffersonville IMO is being asked for an inordinate share of the funding which is supposed to be a "REGIONAL" airport...
No way the county with the financial mess they are in should allocate a single dime. A lot of the River ridge area (where a lot of the growth is occurring ) is in a TIF district and the county won't reap the benefits regardless of how much more growth is attained by airport expansion.....
Since Sellersburg passed on helping to fund the project. They must not see any benefits of expansion, and Sellersburg is where the airport is located, Hmm.
ReplyDeleteThe state is giving each county infrastructure improvement funds of which 25% can be put into rainy day for other uses such as this. Clark County Government gets 3.1, and each city and town gets some as well. Jeffersonville gets over 4 million. So the cash is there. The total amount Clark county governments receive is over $10 million.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Goliath.
The reason Galligan was supposedly given the role by Commissioners was that he was a wiz at marketing...a real go getter of $$. I was at the meeting when he was selected to remain when R's took office. He has been a disappointment. Not one dime should be given as taxpayers have propped this boondoggle up for decades. The acquisition of the Dreyer land also has cost us...remember? What have we benefited from it thus far??
ReplyDeleteTaxpayers should have a voice in how their money is spent. No members of the air authority were elected and the support for this by the public is very minimal.
ReplyDeleteI keep hearing that this is to subsidize rich people. It's not. It's to make the airport more attractive to large companies to bring larger commercial airplanes into our airport. The Louisville region needs a second airport to accomodate the larger planes. Bowman Field can't be expanded, so as the region's air capacity needs to expand, Clark County will be able to take this on. It's a good economic development opportunity.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to hear this isn't about subsidizing rich people.
DeleteSo, is it not subsidizing rich people because average people have large companies and large commercial planes? Or is it not subsidizing rich people because the rich people going to fund it themselves and leave the average people's money alone?
You know, in case we go and tell someone else it isn't subsidizing rich people and they call us on our bullshit.
No denying the airport expansion could be a good thing but the timing just isn't right. Other infrastructure needs are more pressing , especially those that benefit Joe taxpayer. If this was put up as a voter referendum it would fail miserably.
ReplyDeleteAnd lets face facts this isn't a "regional" airport it's a local airport. If "regional" let's ask Louisville and Kentucky to chip in or Columbus and Seymour In. Those municipalities would laugh you out of the building if you asked them for money...
Nobody seems to want to answer ... WHY isn't River Ridge ponied up a little on this ???
Have they been even asked ???
A councilman told me that
ReplyDeleteRiver Ridge cannot be part of a federal matching funds grant.
Jeff is getting over 4 million from the state that must be spent on infrastructure. 400,000 is less than 10% of that amount. And the matching grant from the feds is close to 20 million, not 10.
A larger airport also may play a role in attracting higher tech/ corporate hqs on this side of the river- larger jets require a longer runway.
This is a no brainer.
4 million would go a long way fixing the traffic problems here locally and benefit those who provide the money in the first place not companies most of whom have tax incentives.
ReplyDeleteIt looks like to me this area has a lot of accelerated growth without the longer runway. How much more growth is needed? If there was a need for another big airport private investors would jump all over the idea. Lots of money to be made in aviation under the right circumstances.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.indianasenaterepublicans.com/clientuploads/Documents/2016%20Session/SEA%2067%20Unit-Level%20Distributions.pdf
ReplyDeleteI'm glad an anonymous councilman told you that River Ridge cannot be a part of a federal matching funds grant. Can you find proof of that, or is that just what River Ridge wants local elected officials to believe? And if they can't provide matching grants, perhaps they could just live up to the simple interlocal agreement that they made with each of the taxing units that they stole the assessed values from. Either way, River Ridge needs to start funding some of these economic development costs that they are bringing to the residents (Joe Taxpayers) of this county. Stop expecting residential parcels to foot all these bills of some detached dreamer of grandiose ideas.
ReplyDeleteYeah I would be interested as well as who this councilman was and where they got their information. I can't hardly believe how they (River Ridge) couldn't be part of this if they desired to do so. My guess their attitude is let Joe Taxpayer pay for it...
ReplyDeleteI met with all council members in December, including Josh Rodriguez, Steve Webb and Ron Ellis. Every city council person gave me their word that every penny of the 4.6 million coming from the State would go toward the 8.2 million dollar widening of Holmans Lane, that's why we accelerated the project to be started in 2017. I expect them to keep their word, if not a veto will follow. We need to fix the infrastructure problems we have in our city and stay out of the disfunctunal chaos of the Clark Regional Airport. Jeffersonville dollars for the runway expansion will not fly.
ReplyDeleteMike Moore
Dysfunctional chaos? Expand upon that Mr. Moore. Enlighten us. Anything that is not your idea appears to be chaos, dumb, or dysfunctional.
DeleteThanks Mayor I was hoping you would weigh in on this...IMO that is a very prudent move, as someone who travels Holman Ln. almost daily it is a mess as far as the amount of traffic it has to handle.
ReplyDeleteThis widening will be a huge benefit to the citizens and taxpayers and money well spent...
I really don't see the expansion of the airport as a good thing. The LAST thing we need are large commercial jets landing in southern Indiana. Talk about decreasing property values....... Our area is growing just fine without a larger airport.
ReplyDelete7000' will not support the large class, (heavy) aircraft. Typical large airports have 8000' runways and longer.
DeleteThere are some that may be able to redeem themselves.
ReplyDeleteThe Bat-Blog is watching.
Diggin' Post Holes ! is fun said:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGorlIyOMss
Millions being offered to our community that possibly local contractors, area workers, that pay taxes, spending those dollars into our community, improvements to our airport, no brainer!
ReplyDelete"disfunctunal chaos of the Clark Regional Airport."
ReplyDeleteYep,
That sums it up pretty well......
What is a no brainer is that very few locals use this airport or will ever use it. What locals do use are the roads and highways that are in need of upgrades as well. This airport isn't like Standiford which brings in tourists and every day travelers, it's more in line with private planes and hobbyists who won't add much to the local economy. It looks like the two closest cities Jeff and S'burg don't see any plus to it as well. Yes a no brainer.
ReplyDeleteJeffersonville, just spent 3 million on the riverfront by spring, hardly any locals will ever use those docks. Duffy landing recent land purchase over a million dollars.
ReplyDeleteYes, it looks nicer, but at a cost.
Almost all of us fly, either for business or recreation. Pilot training generally starts out at our local airports. The Shawnee program has been around for years training pilots at CCRA. That's one of many things it's used for.
I realize many are against the airport. I get that! But there are 2 sides to this argument.
Yes they did spend it on the waterfront and it's beautiful to enjoy the view or the fishing pier or docks. It was Jeff's money for Jeff people. The airport isn't in Jeff it is in S'burg and they declined to give.
DeleteLike ht said why so much from Jeff if this is a regional airport why aren't other places, companies, and plane owners giving to this?
Anon, you must be mike moore.
ReplyDeleteLocals absolutely use the docks, will use the docks.
ReplyDeleteNo one unable to afford a plane, or flying lessons, or a chartered flight, should be expected to kick in on this expense. This is so obvious it shouldn't need to be pointed out. It's sad that it does. We've gotten so used to these absolute bullshit claims of "economic development."
River Ridge is booming. The jobs are here. More are coming. Veteran's is finally on a roll. If this economic development stuff is so good for everyone, why are taxpayers being asked for more? Shouldn't this development help us? Shouldn't our incomes have increased or costs went down?
Those wanting more taxpayer dollars for economic development should be able to point to clear benefits from previous economic development spending. Let's see them.
Let's be honest, Taxpayers don't like seeing their money spent on things they don't avail themselves of. Even with the proposed expansion there will be no commercial flights like out of Standiford which everyone uses for their travelling needs. There is also no way of determining how much or if any economic impact would be produced by the expansion.
ReplyDeleteIn the future maybe so, but right now I don't see any need for more airports. Flying out of Standiford is one of the easiest airports in the country I have seen to traverse, rarely over crowded and getting in and out is a breeze compared with other airports and cities.
There may be a niche of aircraft and pilots that use Clark Co., but at this point in time I see more urgent needs and I think a vast majority of taxpayers feel the same way on this...
Tax caps prevent increased taxes. No one's tax rate is increasing because of the airport.
ReplyDeleteKevin, please explain to us how the county mandates the county council voted for have taken money away from Jeffersonville, and when the airport became a "taxing district" a couple of years ago it caused all the other cities, towns, schools and townships less money for basic services like police, fire and street repair?
ReplyDeleteMike Moore
All taxing units have to share the same pot. So a $100,000 homestead will not pay more than $1000 (except for a referendum) but it means that the allocations of that $1000 are split differently.
ReplyDeleteAny other "authorities" that get created will do the same thing. They will simply rob Peter to pay Paul.
Once every parcel is at the caps, government will have two options: focus ONLY on essential services (what we should be doing now instead of economic development) or they will lobby to get rid of the tax caps (or make the legislature bend our Constitution with "exceptions").
Anyone want to start a betting pool?
Unfortunately economic development needs attention, but as Martina says, there's not enough money to do it all.
DeletePs Tina, I spent an hour with councilman Brad Amos at the "after lunch" of the Sellersburg Memorial Service. Sounds you all have alot going on in Sellersburg. Good Luck.
I really like Brad! We don't agree on TIF ;) but I like that he does his homework and he genuinely wants to do what's best for Sellersburg residents.
DeleteThey can only tax if the county council approves. They are not currently taxing.
ReplyDeleteThe airport is currently self sufficient on their regular budget.
A little history here for the readers. Before Mayor Moore was a mayor, he was a Commissioner. Mike went to a member of the air boards house who was very sick, to fire him before he was sworn in as Commissioner. This caused some very hard feelings. Surprisingly, Chuck Moore was a pilot for many years, using our area facilities.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI have seen very little support for this on here or any where else. The only person that is highly supportive of it for the most part is Mr.Vissing. I truly hope the voters are paying attention to how he really cares about your thoughts,and how well he will work for jeffersonvilles interests
ReplyDeleteI feel the airport expansion is very important to this area...Perhaps the timing isn't right for some people( for whatever reason ) but for the rapid business growth this area is seeing the timing is perfect and it would be a good investment.
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth I'm never going to fly or house a small plane there but I'm also never going to dock a boat at the foot of Spring either...I think that argument is a wash for the majority of Jeffersonville citizens, i.e most of us don't have boats or planes...I think the new docks are very attractive but the airport is just as worthy ( actually more worthy ) a project and deserves to proceed.
You can get a little boat to tie up at the docks for well under $1000. How much is a cheap plane?
ReplyDeleteAverage people will pull up to the docks and spend money at local businesses benefitting local merchants, real people many of us know. When local businesses make money, it tends to stay in the community.
That isn't the same as average workers subsidizing the travel of corporate executives.
Jules, how does this differ from the Republican idea of trickle-down economics or the needed coddling of supposed "job creators"?
Parks are nice and a necessary part of our well being and an attraction to those moving in to our community.
DeleteOur airport is an important tool to bring corporations to our community that employ folks that pay the taxes that pay for the parks.
We all pay the taxes that pay for the parks. Anyone of any income level can use and enjoy parks. Corporations can bring themselves to our community just fine. No one's grandma on a fixed income struggling to pay property taxes needs to throw in on corporate executive travel.
DeleteThat little old ladies taxes are not increasing because of the airport. Tax caps prevent that. The money to pay the matching funds will come from available cash. Remember, gas taxes pay for roads, and only roads. The airport can only tax if the County Council approves. That won't happen. If it did, that money comes out of the pot. Not increased taxes. Thanks HT for offering a forum for this subject.
DeleteKvissing
Kevin, unless grandma is at the caps - her taxes absolutely could rise. Until each and every parcel IS at the caps, their taxes can and indeed do, rise. It's a matter of constant pressure up because government never stops to think, "hey, can the taxpayers afford this?"
DeleteAnd even when everyone is at the caps, will that mean that taxes can never rise? It should! But each taxing unit will be fighting for the largest share of that maximum. It will make each taxing unit fight the other.
We have got to stop funding wants and solely focus on needs.
Maybe once some TIFs expire we can fund wants...
Little old ladies will eventually pay more than the caps as political pressure to find ways around them continues, and not all are already at the cap.
DeleteTina, I know that. Just trying to keep it simple. Thanks
DeleteMr. Vissing is in a position to gauge it from many different angles, Anon. Others are highly supportive of it because they know that paying a dime to snag a dollar of matching funds is a wise decision and, overall, the result is an airport that looks forward to the remainder of this century. I SMELL your motive when you pivot and try to personally attack Mr. Vissing's political career. You are the type of destructive voice that holds our community back.
ReplyDeleteI understand KV's thoughts and support of the airport. He's part of the aviation culture which I respect. My contention is at this time there are more pressing needs.
ReplyDeleteI do think Kevin would be a great spokesman and president of the air board and they would have a better chance to succeed with someone like KV out promoting it....
We need to get the funding. This project with almost entirely funded by federal tax dollars. But it only happens if we provide the seed money. Needs to happen.
ReplyDeleteA
ReplyDeleteGet it funded.
ReplyDeleteI fly a plane out of clark county airport. The potential revenue that could be generated from commercial flights is enormous. With the federal regulations and security risk at standiford field we have the opportunity to become a great option for travelers looking to avoid all the headaches Louisville is about to go through. Every one needs to look at the big picture for our growth into the next 20 years.
ReplyDeleteMayor Moore, it is a shame you have to resort to petty comments on social media to achieve your personal agenda. By the way, Excellent work on making our school system look bad on Facebook with your silly campaign against the bus depot. That is very becoming of a Mayor.
ReplyDeleteThis airport project needs to get funded. Step up to the plate and show leadership.
Martina, as a representative of Sellersburg you should be in support of this
ReplyDeleteI may be a representative on the Sellersburg Town Council, but I'm a small government conservative. When the businesses who supposedly want this airport expansion start showing their monetary support, then you can come back to me to ask for Sellersburg residents to pony up. The new project that is directly across the street, was specifically asked if the airport contributed to their decision to locate there. Their representative was absolutely clear that the airport did not factor into their decision!
DeleteYou are relying on a sample of one? That is not what a representative does…
DeleteWhich is why I continue to ask how many businesses are willing to show support by pledging their own donations??
DeleteMy sample may be one, but yours is zero on the other side. Or is it like Kelley said, they want to socialize the risk but privatize the profit?
RDA projects were supposed to be funded the same way I am proposing. 20% grant/20% taxpayer money and 60% private investment. Are you saying thats not an option here? If local business that believe they will increase profits by a larger airport will supply some private donations, then we will ask the residents. Not before.
This is not about profits. This is about jobs... higher paying jobs. You know, the jobs that provide a living for the residents you refer to, which includes me... I'm my sample of one...
DeleteAs I said, Sellersburg is where people want to live. Many of the residents commute out of our community to work. I do not wish to see Sellersburg morph into a town that looks more like Jeffersonville or Clarksville under the guise of jobs that may or may not come. River Ridge is growing without an expanded airport!
DeleteI am not actively seeking to stop the expansion, but I feel strongly against using Sellersburg residents' taxes to potentially harm them. Whether the airport supporters acknowledge it or not, a bigger airport will potentially harm the quality of life for nearby residential parcels. Am I not to care about them? Nor the taxes that will reduce if their property values decline?
Even if only an increase in freight transport is the goal, then you're talking about an increase in semi's in and out of the area. Harsh on roads and traffic.
See, I am capable of seeing past the tired "jobs is enough reason" argument.
Um, what residential parcels are you talking about? The ones in the quarry? The ones in the industrial park?
DeleteDeclining investment in community =Declining payroll=declining tax revenue = declining basic services=declining standard of living= declining property value = declining tax revenue. Rinse and repeat and we will get exactly what you want... A smaller government in a declining community.
DeleteWhy on earth would the council of a small community encourage airplane noise and pollution. That's ridiculous. She wasn't the only one to oppose. The airport is in Sellersburg, and those most impacted DON'T SUPPORT this additional funding.
ReplyDeleteNoise and pollution....? That is your beef? get the facts, don't rely on heresay.
DeleteTina is right many local residents including several of my family members have moved to Sellerburg because of it's makeup as primarily a residential community and it's schools. At this time the roads surrounding the airport and in the Sellersburg infrastructure aren't equipped to handle any more traffic that airport expansion will bring.
ReplyDeleteThere is also no proof that expansion will bring in any more businesses, the recent growth has been expotentially huge with out an airport. The new bridge, centrally located and the pluses that River Ridge has been the main factors. Staniford and Bowman fields are more than adequate for flying needs in this area. Clark Co. airport is best suited to what it is for hobbyists and small aircraft owners and if businesses want a longer runway let them pony up the cash....leave the tax dollars for more needed improvements....
Mr. Bat,
DeleteWhen you say the infrastructure would not handle the additional traffic, have you been in that area? The roads are nearly ideal considering the proximity to I-65 and the new extension that was completed a few years ago.
Spend some time learning about Bowman. It is not adequate. An expansion of our airport is an opportunity, not an expense.
Cat woman
If the expansion is such a great opportunity Cat, I suggest those that use the airport cough up the money to make it happen. If it's as great as you say so investors could make a killing...Welcome to the world of private ownership and capitalism...
DeleteMr. Bat,
DeleteYou don't need to welcome me to the world of private ownership. I already live in the real world and don't wear a bat suit.
Mr Bat, you didn't answer Cats question. Have you actually looked at the infrastructure around the airport, or are you just vomiting false information to try and support your beliefs?
DeleteDrive through Sellersburg at least twice a week...their traffic situation hasn't kept up with the growth of the area and needs immediate attention and updates..
DeleteExcellent, then you see exactly why we need to do the airport expansion.
DeleteI've knocked on several hundred doors in the neighborhoods that are effected by the noise level of the airport. Bigger jets and louder engines are not what the voters in Jeff are looking for. Once the runway extension is complete the air board will then say we need a Tower, once they have a Tower, they will say we need the manpower to operate it. It reminds me of the children's book If You Give A Camel A Cookie. Wouldn't it be nice if all elected officials listened to the voters they represent?
ReplyDeleteMike Moore
Aren't you the same person who didn't know that the airport didn't have taxing authority? Maybe you need to show up for meetings!
DeleteOf all people, talking about wasting money! Mr. Mayor.....you spend like a drunken sailor. I hear no improvement to flooding problems downtown, and your out of money.
ReplyDeleteDamn fine points, mayor!
ReplyDeleteMayor Moore is mayor of Jeffersonville and watches out what is best for Jeff residents. So far he has done an excellent job doing so...the update and improvement of Holman Ln. is way more important, necessary and money well spent than a second rate airport that isn't even located in Jeffersonville...Good decision mayor...
ReplyDeleteJeff Council voted 5-3 to give the airport $400k tonight with an anticipated mayoral veto.
ReplyDeleteLisa Gill kicked ass and took names during the meeting. It appears she caught airport presenters in a lie regarding audits and financial reporting, and she got Ed Z to admit the amount requested was a number he and Ron Grooms pretty much pulled out of their butts.
They will need a 6-3 majority to override Mayor Moore's expected veto if I am correct...Looks like Ms. Jahn who was absent could be the deciding vote...Look for a lot of behind the scene lobbying on this one...
ReplyDeleteVote went as expected... you know Ed "Moe" Z will be in Gilligan's pocket as well Samuels.. a little surprised by "Lapdog" Owen he a lot of the time votes with the mayor...
Our city council has let us down. Sorry to the 19,000 travelers per day that utilize Holmans Lane who were ignored at tonight's vote. Obviously 5 council members don't place much value when giving their word. I guess airplanes are cooler then public safety.
ReplyDeleteMike Moore
Mayor, if we didn't take advantage of the opportunity to do this project, we would regret it for years. A once in a lifetime opportunity.
DeleteHolmans Lane is important. It will get funded. But we cannot let the airport opportunity pass us by.
Congratulations to the council. This was definitely the right decision. 95% of this project is funded by federal funds. If we didn't do this today, we would regret it for generations.
ReplyDeleteMayor more, please reconsider the knee-jerk reaction to Veto. Holmans Lane is important, but this is important as well, and will have a much more transformative effect on Jeffersonville in future years. Holmans Lane will get done. If we don't seize the airport opportunity today, it may never happen.